Talk:Robert Jay Mathews

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Spelling of surname[edit]

Despite frequent "corrections", Mathews's last name only contained one "t". --ESP 05:54, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Robert Mathews is NOT a fascist[edit]

Robert Mathews, like all revolutionary leaders defy many traditional labels.

Facism was a label that Robert Mathews would dispute since he was not a believer in Governmental Control as is meant by this phrase. Nowhere can it be shown that Robert Mathews spoke of, or wrote about, this concept of government. Like all Folkish leaders, he believed in the the 'power of the people', his people, to set the standards of Life and government.

Placing Robert J. Mathews on the Facism index is dishonest at best, misleading at worst. 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

While it is almost certainly true that Robert Jay Mathews was not an orthodox fascist, his association with the National Alliance, and his relationship with its founder, Dr. William L. Pierce, arguably the leading (White) national socialist organization and leader in the USA, respectively, taken with his stated beliefs and deeds as a whole, does very much suggest that Mr. Mathews was a militant national socialist. While in the strict acedemic sense, it is clear that national socialism and fascism are two distinct doctrines, they are never-the-less largely seen as two variants within a generally rightist political milieu that is commonly, if somewhat imprecisely, labeled "fascism." Simply put, Mr. Mathews was a national socialist, and national socialists are within the scope of WikiProject Fascism, irrespective of whether than ought, ideally, to be the case. KevinOKeeffe (talk) 08:02, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Merging with The Order[edit]

Does it make sense to move the section on The Order to The Order (group)? --ESP 14:29, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

No. The Order is an organization with which scores of people were associated, yet only Mathews and David Lane have their own individual articles. Mathews and Lane are simply much more notable, and thus worthy of their own write-ups. In the case of Mathews in particular, it is almost difficult to underestimate the extent to which he is a revered figure within the White racialist right, not just here in North America, but in Europe and Australia as well. This article should most definitely not be merged with the article on The Order. KevinOKeeffe (talk) 08:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


When it says, 'Mathews began to read history and politics'- doesn't that suggest he was at University?- it should be made clearer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I've read about history and politics since I was a little kid. Doesn't mean I've ever gone to university. (talk) 08:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The IP above geolocates to the U.K. where "reading" a subject is a usage which means "studying the subject at a college or niversity", hence the misunderstanding. I'll fix that now. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:06, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Irrelevant schmaltz[edit]

This article is riddled with non-encyclopaedic rubbish, the most notable paragraph being: "Two years later he married Debbie McGarrity, a Kansan who shared his love of nature. He began to raise Scottish Galloway cattle. The couple adopted a son in 1981, and he became the incarnation of the hard-working all-American man. He kept his hair short, and it is reported that he didn't drink, smoke or cuss. His favorite snack was apple pie." -- is it Wikipedia policy to include not just articles on non-notable petty crooks, but also their favourite foods as well? This article needs a major clean-up to be based on facts instead of nostalgia. Jdcooper 10:29, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

It wouldn't hurt to take out politically laden and non-footnoted crap like "The robbers distributed some of the stolen money to various other criminal racist and terrorist organizations." Which "criminal" organizations? Were's the citation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Obviously, such trivialities as a person's favorite food should not usually be on biographical encyclopedia articles. F W Nietzsche (talk) 10:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

If there ever was any connection between The Order / Bruders Schweigen, then that should be stated, with refs. However, I don't know of any such link. F W Nietzsche (talk) 10:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

"agents found the burned remains of 31 year old Mathews' body next to a charred bathtub, with the gold symbol of his Order melted into his chest." Is there some citation to this? Or is this just some white-supremist glorification propaganda? It seems unlikely, though not impossible, that the gold symbol would be able to melt to his chest and still be recognizable. I might buy that it was burned to his chest, but that it melted and fused with him seems highly unlikely. (talk) 06:08, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

"the gold symbol of his Order melted into his chest" Seriously? Why is Wikipedia allowing the glorification of a Neo-Nazi based on absolutely no facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:10, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Since I can't find an RS which reports that, I will remove it, and will take a look at the rest of the article as well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:27, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:04, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Gone With the Breeze - Prussian Blue[edit]

This is a cover of a Ian Stuart song from the record 'Patriotic Ballads I' it was not written by Prussian Blue, and has been covered numerous times before Prussian Blue murdered it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:41, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Resting Place - Valhalla (?!)[edit]

Obvious POV, should be deleted Irisismykid (talk) 17:46, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. I have done so. If someone wishes to revert this, please provide a reference. --Alþykkr (talk) 02:52, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Location of Death[edit]

According to the referenced page from HistoryLink, the house where Mathews was killed is near Smuggler's Cove, which is quite a distance away from Coupeville (I graduated from Coupeville High School in 1983, I know the area very well). I do not know why this article repeatedly claims that he was killed IN Coupeville.

Here's a google maps link to Coupeville:,+whidbey+island&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=44.744674,73.916016&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Coupeville,+Island,+Washington&t=h&z=14

Here's a google maps link for Smuggler's Cove:'s+cove+road,+whidbey+island&aq=&sll=48.072492,-122.517626&sspn=0.592782,1.154938&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Smugglers+Cove+Rd,+Freeland,+Island,+Washington+98249&ll=48.022855,-122.59253&spn=0.009271,0.018046&t=h&z=16

If it is required that a political place name be used to describe the location, "Freeland, WA" is much more appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure where to put this; didn't numerous sources claim The Order was involved in the murder of radio personality Alan Berg? That Mathews called in to Berg's radio show several times and was ridiculed for his racist beliefs, something that prompted The Order to gun the radio host down in his driveway? The Wiki entry here on Alan Berg also discusses the role the Order played in his murder.

Symphony of Sorrow Song[edit]

The band Symphony of Sorrow released an album entitled Symphony of Hatred with a song towards the end of the album with audio from Mathews' famous speech given to the National Alliance. I don't have access to the album right now but if someone could find which song it was and include it in the article that would be great.--SlapChopVincent (talk) 09:01, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


Light bulb iconBAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

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I have reworded several parts of the article for neutrality. As it stood, it read more like a glorification of Mathews than an encyclopedic entry. Rokoschimera (talk) 22:01, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

I endorse your changes. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:01, 12 December 2018 (UTC)